[cap-talk] Capabilities and Freedom vs. Safety

[Mark Miller]

On 7/25/07, Toby Murray <toby.murray at comlab.ox.ac.uk> wrote:
> Reading the archives reveals that there have been many others over the
> years who have joined these lists, engaged in the discussion and either
> stayed or left having learnt something important. I'd be disappointed if
> these lists stopped serving that purpose.

Indeed! And the learning opportunity goes both ways. We have also
learned much from the skeptics who have productively engaged with us.
For example, we only came to understand and appreciate the Hartley
anomaly <http://www.erights.org/elib/capability/conspire.html#revokability>
after much argument. Ralph started with assumptions that were, if
anything, more diametrically opposed to caps than anyone in the
present thread, so I must disagree with DavidC's analysis.

I think two factors separate these previous discussions from the present one:

* The tone. Many of JAD's postings have included inappropriately
personal remarks. Such remarks had previously been quite unprecedented
on this list. But, I'm sad to say, this tone has provoked
inappropriate personal remarks in reaction; perhaps including my
observation here. The unpleasantness of this tone is the secondary
reason I haven't engaged in this thread. (The primary one being that
I'm simply too busy.) I hope cap-talk will return to its ultra-civil
normality soon.

* Insufficient appreciation by some of the participants of how
difficult it can be to uncover what the real disagreements are behind
apparently opposed positions; and of how important it is to spend this
effort. Often, both sides rest on unstated inarticulate assumptions
that they can only discover the need to state by wondering: "How could
the other side miss my point, which is so obvious to me?" When you
wonder about this, seek a flaw in your own explanations, not the other
side's motivation or personality. I point again to that old argument
with Ralph Hartley as a positive example -- for both sides.

-- 
Text by me above is hereby placed in the public domain

    Cheers,
    --MarkM