[cap-talk] Bee Eyes (was: "ACLs don't" paper rejected from Oakland 09)

[Jed Donnelley]

At 08:41 AM 2/2/2009, Mark Miller wrote:
>On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 1:51 AM, Matej Kosik 
><<mailto:kosik at fiit.stuba.sk>kosik at fiit.stuba.sk> wrote:
>If we compare ACLs to faceted eye of a bee
>and capabilities to the eye we ourselves use...
>
>...The computer field already has trillions invested in the bee eye. 
>If we can't find an incremental evolutionary path from the status 
>quo towards capabilities, where both can co-exist during the 
>transition, then I doubt there will be any transition. On the web 
>especially, the entire game is finding incremental adoption paths.
>
>I will take this opportunity to re-raise the topic of so-called 
>"hybrid capability systems" (HCS)...

I believe it's true that we can transition without the need for 
hybrid systems.  We can 'simply' have some capability systems (e.g. 
Web keys) along side some ACL based systems (e.g. traditional user 
logins for Web sites).  I don't see why we can't transition by using 
more and more capabilities when needed (e.g. in mash-ups) and leave 
ACL systems to fade away in local obscurity (since ACL access 
controls are only valid as far as their principals are known) while 
capabilities become more widely used as being usable more globally 
and without the need for widespread registering of 
names/identities.  It seems to me that this is already happening to 
some extent.  The quicker the better from my perspective.

To me it's a bit like Unix access controls.  At one point they were 
quite important and a primary form of access control.  They are still 
used of course (every day by me ...), but only locally on individual 
Unix systems.  For more widespread forms of authority distribution 
mechanisms with better communication facilities (e.g. more 
capability-like systems, e.g. GPG keys) are needed and used.  It 
seems to me that this trend could continue without a need for any (or 
any significant/integrated) hybrid systems.

Incidentally, have any others seen this:

http://neil.brown.name/blog/20041206170240

(speaking of Unix access controls).  I find it interested in being a 
more or less first principles effort to "reform" Unix access 
controls.  Doesn't exactly result in object/capabilities, but it 
seems to me that what he is looking for can be achieved with 
object/capabilities.

I find the above interesting somewhat because it shows up second in a 
Google search for "unix access control".

--Jed  http://www.webstart.com/jed-signature.html 
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